Comments for Analystanalyst's Weblog http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com Who analyzes the analysts? - analystanalyst.com Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:44:00 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on Now Gartner are getting sued by ZL for their Magic Quadrant by Infuse » Blog Archive » Should you sue your influencers? http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/now-gartner-are-getting-sued-by-zl-for-their-magic-quadrant/#comment-95 Infuse » Blog Archive » Should you sue your influencers? Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:44:00 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=42#comment-95 [...] AnalystAnalyst I see that tech vendor ZL is suing Gartner. Interesting tactic. My first thought was that this [...] [...] AnalystAnalyst I see that tech vendor ZL is suing Gartner. Interesting tactic. My first thought was that this [...]

]]> Comment on Now Gartner are getting sued by ZL for their Magic Quadrant by analystanalyst http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/now-gartner-are-getting-sued-by-zl-for-their-magic-quadrant/#comment-94 analystanalyst Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:01:12 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=42#comment-94 Then feel free to not read this blog, thanks for stopping by. How do you know I am not in Orlando this week, and equally how do you know that I have not sat through several dedicated MQ presentations, and even presentations on how MQs are built and what they mean, delivered by Gartner analysts? (The answer is, of course, that I may well be in Orlando, may well be going to Cannes, and I have attended all those presentations and more). You quite clearly aren't in Orlando, but instead, Barcelona. Oh, and with regards murders, please don't confuse IT analysts with well trained forensic and criminal scientists, properly versed in the scientific method... I have never seen an MQ presented in a murder case... Analysis does NOT make the world go round, get real. Then feel free to not read this blog, thanks for stopping by.

How do you know I am not in Orlando this week, and equally how do you know that I have not sat through several dedicated MQ presentations, and even presentations on how MQs are built and what they mean, delivered by Gartner analysts? (The answer is, of course, that I may well be in Orlando, may well be going to Cannes, and I have attended all those presentations and more). You quite clearly aren’t in Orlando, but instead, Barcelona.

Oh, and with regards murders, please don’t confuse IT analysts with well trained forensic and criminal scientists, properly versed in the scientific method… I have never seen an MQ presented in a murder case…

Analysis does NOT make the world go round, get real.

]]> Comment on Now Gartner are getting sued by ZL for their Magic Quadrant by Alvin Stardust http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/now-gartner-are-getting-sued-by-zl-for-their-magic-quadrant/#comment-93 Alvin Stardust Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:50:19 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=42#comment-93 Analysis makes the world go around. Analysis proves beyond reasonable doubt that a murder was committed and it is recorded that the defendant committed murder. Is that fact or analysis? The persistent "bitching" as recorded by another anon blogger is a clear indication you have a gripe with the analyst community, so the analyst community and others will respond. With regard to spending money with Gartner, you've constantly implied that vendors buy influence. You were notably scathing at the blog by Tom Bittman. But this MQ shows how misguided you are. IBM and HP are two of the biggest clients with Gartner, yet they achieve only a niche position. According to your view they should be higher because they spend more, and have huge resources to "influence" analyst views. It's rubbish - and this goes to prove it. "De-stressing the importance of MQs"....rubbish. Clearly you're not in Orlando this week where there are DEDICATED MQ presentations. The same is being repeated in Cannes in a few weeks. Like I said, you don't have the facts. You could make some good contribution to the debate but you bring only scathing commentary, which doesn't do your blog, or you any favors. Analysis makes the world go around. Analysis proves beyond reasonable doubt that a murder was committed and it is recorded that the defendant committed murder. Is that fact or analysis?
The persistent “bitching” as recorded by another anon blogger is a clear indication you have a gripe with the analyst community, so the analyst community and others will respond.
With regard to spending money with Gartner, you’ve constantly implied that vendors buy influence. You were notably scathing at the blog by Tom Bittman. But this MQ shows how misguided you are. IBM and HP are two of the biggest clients with Gartner, yet they achieve only a niche position. According to your view they should be higher because they spend more, and have huge resources to “influence” analyst views. It’s rubbish – and this goes to prove it.
“De-stressing the importance of MQs”….rubbish. Clearly you’re not in Orlando this week where there are DEDICATED MQ presentations. The same is being repeated in Cannes in a few weeks. Like I said, you don’t have the facts. You could make some good contribution to the debate but you bring only scathing commentary, which doesn’t do your blog, or you any favors.

]]> Comment on Now Gartner are getting sued by ZL for their Magic Quadrant by analystanalyst http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/now-gartner-are-getting-sued-by-zl-for-their-magic-quadrant/#comment-92 analystanalyst Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:37:48 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=42#comment-92 I don't know where you think I'm coming from on this one, but I never claimed to have all the facts... I just thought it was funny (and by the way I don't think ZL will win, I think they are just needlessly whining). Sales and marketing are VERY important, and this is where ZL clearly fell down. I am sure they have a lovely product, but no-one knows about it. That is not Gartner's fault, but they are looking for someone to blame. Lots of people have excellent products, but those with the biggest marketing bucks still win, the auto industry is a good example of that, we should have been driving cool electric cars many years ago... No doubt however that there have been deals which ZL have been in where they were thrown out because of Gartner's opinion without a chance to show their worth and that can be frustrating as I have discussed here before. I also never made any analysis, merely stated a couple of known facts. My analysis is not misguided, it is an opinion, as is all analysis, not a fact. Kind of the point of this whole site, people who think analysis is fact are the main problem. P.S. in regards to your comment "Didn't THEY spend enough with Gartner to secure a better position?" I thought the whole point of recent debate was that how much you spend with Gartner has NO effect on your MQ position? I don’t know where you think I’m coming from on this one, but I never claimed to have all the facts… I just thought it was funny (and by the way I don’t think ZL will win, I think they are just needlessly whining).
Sales and marketing are VERY important, and this is where ZL clearly fell down. I am sure they have a lovely product, but no-one knows about it. That is not Gartner’s fault, but they are looking for someone to blame.
Lots of people have excellent products, but those with the biggest marketing bucks still win, the auto industry is a good example of that, we should have been driving cool electric cars many years ago…
No doubt however that there have been deals which ZL have been in where they were thrown out because of Gartner’s opinion without a chance to show their worth and that can be frustrating as I have discussed here before.

I also never made any analysis, merely stated a couple of known facts.

My analysis is not misguided, it is an opinion, as is all analysis, not a fact. Kind of the point of this whole site, people who think analysis is fact are the main problem.

P.S. in regards to your comment “Didn’t THEY spend enough with Gartner to secure a better position?” I thought the whole point of recent debate was that how much you spend with Gartner has NO effect on your MQ position?

]]> Comment on Now Gartner are getting sued by ZL for their Magic Quadrant by Alvin Stardust http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/now-gartner-are-getting-sued-by-zl-for-their-magic-quadrant/#comment-91 Alvin Stardust Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:22:53 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=42#comment-91 I know you would just love it for Gartner to lose on this one, but unfortunately for you, and for ZL, the process and procedure is so tight, it doesn't stand a chance. This is nothing more than a passionate yank that thinks product is more important than sales and marketing. "It just sells itself". Total BS - never heard of the 4 P's. Did you check out ZL's position on the MQ? Along with the other 13, yes 13 other vendors in the niche segment? (There's only 17 players on the MQ! Which by the way includes IBM, CA and HP. Didn't THEY spend enough with Gartner to secure a better position? Or is it that in this particular area of their portfolio the analysis says they're weak. You can keep trying, but your misguided analysis just doesn't hold water my friend. Give it up, you don't have the facts. I know you would just love it for Gartner to lose on this one, but unfortunately for you, and for ZL, the process and procedure is so tight, it doesn’t stand a chance. This is nothing more than a passionate yank that thinks product is more important than sales and marketing. “It just sells itself”. Total BS – never heard of the 4 P’s. Did you check out ZL’s position on the MQ? Along with the other 13, yes 13 other vendors in the niche segment? (There’s only 17 players on the MQ! Which by the way includes IBM, CA and HP. Didn’t THEY spend enough with Gartner to secure a better position? Or is it that in this particular area of their portfolio the analysis says they’re weak. You can keep trying, but your misguided analysis just doesn’t hold water my friend. Give it up, you don’t have the facts.

]]> Comment on The Gartner bias issue has popped up again – where are the aliens? by analystanalyst http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/the-gartner-bias-issue-has-popped-up-again-where-are-the-aliens/#comment-89 analystanalyst Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:35:26 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=39#comment-89 I never said they swept the board, I said they were punching above their weight. Small 2-6 man agencies competing on level pegging with behemoths such as Gartner is impressive. I never said they swept the board, I said they were punching above their weight. Small 2-6 man agencies competing on level pegging with behemoths such as Gartner is impressive.

]]> Comment on The Gartner bias issue has popped up again – where are the aliens? by Alvin Stardust http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/the-gartner-bias-issue-has-popped-up-again-where-are-the-aliens/#comment-88 Alvin Stardust Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:20:58 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=39#comment-88 "This is why the smaller, more open boutique firms such as Freeform and Redmonk are winning awards voted on by users such as the IIAR awards and are punching well above their weight"....Did you check out which analyst firm swept the board at this year's IIAR awardS? You do quote some rubbish. Why do you think Gartner bought Meta? To firmly redress the balance of revenue handsomely in favour of end user clients. Vendors are a large portion of Gartner revenue, but NOT Research revenue. Events, Consulting - yes but Research - about 10%. “This is why the smaller, more open boutique firms such as Freeform and Redmonk are winning awards voted on by users such as the IIAR awards and are punching well above their weight”….Did you check out which analyst firm swept the board at this year’s IIAR awardS? You do quote some rubbish.

Why do you think Gartner bought Meta? To firmly redress the balance of revenue handsomely in favour of end user clients.

Vendors are a large portion of Gartner revenue, but NOT Research revenue. Events, Consulting – yes but Research – about 10%.

]]> Comment on The Gartner bias issue has popped up again – where are the aliens? by analystanalyst http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/the-gartner-bias-issue-has-popped-up-again-where-are-the-aliens/#comment-87 analystanalyst Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:23:41 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=39#comment-87 I think that would be a great idea. Gartner would never go for it though as it would imply bias when they vehemently deny the fact... ;-) I think that would be a great idea. Gartner would never go for it though as it would imply bias when they vehemently deny the fact… ;-)

]]> Comment on The Gartner bias issue has popped up again – where are the aliens? by James http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/the-gartner-bias-issue-has-popped-up-again-where-are-the-aliens/#comment-86 James Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:20:08 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=39#comment-86 Can the matter be simply solved by Gartner using the redmonk technique in indicating who paid and who didn't for each quadrant? Can the matter be simply solved by Gartner using the redmonk technique in indicating who paid and who didn’t for each quadrant?

]]> Comment on Twitter honesty reveals Gartner Magic Quadrants for what they really are… by anonymous analyst http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/twitter-honesty-reveals-gartner-magic-quadrants-for-what-they-really-are/#comment-80 anonymous analyst Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:16:50 +0000 http://analystanalyst.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-80 Mike Rothman is right. You exhibit incredible naivety. You clearly don't understand the publication process for a magic quadrant - suggest you ask to be educated. It's acually impossible for French Caldwell to drop a vendor just because they don't talk to him (even if he'd like to)....but significantly easier for him to do his job effectively if they do. "People are making buying decision (naively) based on the word of just one or two analysts". D'ya think one or two vendors out there might just be lying their arse off for a sale that fleeces the customer's pockets....and there's plenty of examples of corruption in achieving it! Injustice...I'd say so. How do analysts know all this?....because if you check the bios, you'll find that 90% used to be in your position. Mike Rothman is right. You exhibit incredible naivety.

You clearly don’t understand the publication process for a magic quadrant – suggest you ask to be educated.

It’s acually impossible for French Caldwell to drop a vendor just because they don’t talk to him (even if he’d like to)….but significantly easier for him to do his job effectively if they do.

“People are making buying decision (naively) based on the word of just one or two analysts”. D’ya think one or two vendors out there might just be lying their arse off for a sale that fleeces the customer’s pockets….and there’s plenty of examples of corruption in achieving it! Injustice…I’d say so.

How do analysts know all this?….because if you check the bios, you’ll find that 90% used to be in your position.

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